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Everything on Nothing
Welcome to the podcast where everything is connected and nothing really matters. Hosted by Mickey, Christian, and Jacki
Everything on Nothing
Everything on Cheese
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Is cheese political?
That’s the question.
And apparently, the answer requires Mickey, Christian, and Ian to discuss ancient Rome, government cheese, raw milk, war, capitalism, comedy, mold, Upton Sinclair, American food, and the horrifying process by which humanity apparently discovered what was safe to eat.
Also, Jacki isn’t here.
This is the first episode of Everything on Nothing without her, so obviously things go completely off the rails.
Mickey has a question about cheese, and because Mickey is Mickey, answering it means going all the way back to the beginning. Cheese turns out to be tied to politics, war, trade, government regulation, food safety, cultural identity, and some truly questionable decisions made by people thousands of years ago.
Along the way, the conversation takes some very necessary detours into:
- Comedy bombing, Big Tim Murphy, and the strange science of making people laugh.
- Raw milk, government cheese, and why apparently cheese is an American political issue now.
- Moldy cheese, oysters, mushrooms, and the eternal question: Who was the first person to eat that?
And because this is Everything on Nothing, we eventually end up talking about Alexander the Great, Rembrandt, Marvel cookbooks, television, teaching, technology, and why there are apparently too many podcasts.
Everything is connected.
Nothing really matters.
Is cheese political??
Listen to the episode and decide for yourself.
Charles de Gaulle once posed the question, how can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese? Welcome to Everything on Nothing where everything is connected and nothing really matters. I am your host, Mickey, and if you ask me a question, I will answer it thoroughly. Today's question is Is cheese political? Our producer is currently tailgating and waiting on a Jack White concert. In her place, we have Michelle Obama, who unfortunately does not have a working microphone. But with me as always, the Dragon's Breath to my stinking bishop, the artist graphic that brings all the traffic. It's Christian.
SPEAKER_05Hi, everybody.
unknownHi.
SPEAKER_01A huge shout out to the boss man and editor Zach. He's been going through all of our documents, and since he took over, uh he recently discovered uh an old contract that we had. Uh we used to do a podcast called uh Your Favorite Episode, in which we had Ian uh Ian Frazier as the host, and uh he signed up for a certain amount of episodes, and Zach discovered that there was an error in all of the accounting. And through no through no fault of Ian's or ours, uh probably our accountants, uh, he still had one episode left on that contract. So to fulfill that obligation, uh, author, poet, journalist, fantastic interviewist, Ian Frasier. Welcome aboard.
SPEAKER_04Thank you, thank you. Uh, you know, happy, happy to be here.
SPEAKER_01Uh, before we cut the cheese, uh, much congrats and love to dear Sandy in Portland, Oregon. Uh Portland, Oregon. Uh, they just finished a huge project putting together an in-house audio system. Uh, apparently they have plans to book Whitesnake for a reunion show. Uh, I might have misread that. I don't know. Uh they are not, they are not a sponsor. I want to I want to stress that. Uh, this is just pure love. They are not paying me to say this. Uh, every time I mention them, uh, boss man Zach gets a little upset because we are losing money on the financial end. Um, and so to counter that, uh, I'll pay him respect and say, check out Reasonably Afraid, a comedy horror podcast that he uh takes a deep dive on into your favorite horror flicks. Uh, it is hosted by Zach and the King of Kings, Ray Reyes. Uh, all things being connected. Uh, one time Jackie and I took a road trip to Melbourne, I believe it was Melbourne, Florida at the time. And uh Zach wanted to come along. And while we took the hour-long drive down there, uh he read uh the book that he had just finished up. Uh and uh then we got out of the car and we sat down and we watched Christian do a comedy show. And then I ended up leaving with a painting of R2 D2. So I don't I'm not sure quite I'm I'm sure by the end of this day we can figure out how R2 D2 connects to all that, but uh you two are connected in that way, and and uh going beyond uh you said digital friends. So right, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, that was a good night. I that's also the night we wound up uh on the beach. Uh uh you, me and Jackie uh wound up on the beach that night uh getting high.
SPEAKER_01Yes, that was uh during our exploratory phase. Like that was still at the beginning of our exploratory phase, and he had held on to a couple joints like let's smoke on the beach.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was a great time.
SPEAKER_05I wish I remember what show that was, too, by the way. It was uh it was the live drawing improv thing, yeah, which I think was called like drawn by committee or something like that. Uh, I wish I remembered the name of it. That was at Standard Collective. It was a really just fun. We occasionally would do stuff like that, and I wish we had done more stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04What was the conceit? Was it like Pictionary? I'm trying to remember what you guys were were drawing. I'm trying to remember how the the drawing part worked.
SPEAKER_05It was like we were improving off of each other based on a prompt on different prompts that Mitchell Mitchell Willard had prepared. Yeah, and he had like a his like wake him set up, and he was like drawing as we were talking about it, and there was like audience participation and stuff like that. It was it was that kind of stuff was like very, very cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was a fun show. I do remember that show.
SPEAKER_01That was a that was a really fun show, and yeah, I I think something like I that's what we recently talked about dropout TV and stuff, and I I believe something like that. Um given enough time and enough uh iterations, and you kind of like the first time it's kind of scary, it's fun, it's exciting, and and you know, the newness of it is is uh makes it a little bit more than it would be uh than the second or third time, it's like a little less and a little less, but then you hit that pace where you start scraping off all the the sharp burrs, and you get to the point where you're like, okay, now this this is this works, this doesn't, and then by the fifth show it becomes even better than the first show, and then uh each time you kind of add on. So I think given enough time, that would have been a an extremely uh that would have been a huge draw for a lot of people because it had a lot of uh great elements to it. Yeah, a lot of great elements in Melbourne.
SPEAKER_05The Melbourne comedy scene, I think, was really into the idea of doing something like that once, getting real high off of it, and then going like, well, that was cool later.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'll tell you, you know, has done a really good version of exactly that, not to shout out people who aren't here, but hopefully it encourages uh somebody. But uh, we all know Larry Fulford in this room and Larry Fulford's uh What Do You Want From Us series? Yeah, yeah. Uh that is a great premise. Like, like, you know, I I would not have thought that works would work as well as it does, but if you've ever seen one of those, they're fantastic. He has three comics, and or it's usually three or four comics, and the the audience is given like a choice of topics, and whatever the audience votes on, one of the comedians there has a joke on one of those topics, and there's uh it's always kind of a gamble. You're trying to figure out which comedian's gonna have which joke on what. It's it's really great, it's it's a good time, and there it's funny as hell.
SPEAKER_01I if given enough uh if I had a large sum of money and I had my own television network, I would dedicate an hour to Larry because he has come up with some extremely fantastic ideas over the years, yeah. Uh for a period of that one uh life's a gift was life's a gift excellent one.
SPEAKER_04Him and uh Alex uh um Luchin.
SPEAKER_01Alex Luchin, yep.
SPEAKER_04Alex Luchin, god Alex Luchin still has my favorite fucking uh like introductory joke of all time, which was hey, my name's Alex. People ask me if that's long for Alex or short for Alexander.
SPEAKER_05I say no, it's long for Luchin was a was like I love I love Larry. Yeah, Luchin has gone on to the beyond of just posting on like threads, but uh watching Alex Luchin was like, did we enter a different dimension? Yeah, it was truly like it was just this weird, transcendent thing.
SPEAKER_04I was like, I came out of my body, like just he was just so naturally just one of those guys who like the second he was on stage, you were you're laughing at the the vlog of Ann Frank. Oh yeah, the vlog the vlog of Ann Frank was was the friend.
SPEAKER_05I want to thank the stance.com and then he like works the the the Nazis pounding on the door into like the the the commercial sting like intro for the podcast that she or the vlog that she's doing. It's it's genius, like you've never seen.
SPEAKER_04It was right, it was one of it was one of the best bits ever. Not uh again, this is just us talking about bits the rest of you will never see in your life. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01To put it in perspective, uh and connect it to this show. In our living room, we have a painting of a Kentucky wildcat. It was gifted to us by Alex Luchin and Kyle, the person that made the intro for our song, also the owner of Dear Sandy in Portland, Oregon. Um and they they teamed up and they uh put on a an online um skit. It was a whole uh immersive um prank, basically. They they went uh next to the uh Fashion Square Mall. There was a restaurant that had been abandoned for years, and they did a photo shoot of them being all excited and signing papers saying that they purchased it. It was like a hibachi uh uh hibachi and groni uh uh place. Uh and the tagline was serving piping hot Negronies. And it like they they had several uh accounts where they would talk as as employees going back and forth complaining about this and how Alex was asleep and was supposed to come unlock the door and all this other stuff. It got to the point where they asked if they could have a customer appreciation uh uh party, and Jackie being Jackie was like absolutely yes, 100%. We can have a customer appreciation pool party in our house, and we'll set up a buffet. And we set up some of Lebouf's uh famous um recipes like beans in a can, where we just simply opened a can of beans and put a spoon in it. Um and uh they awarded us with both the painting of the the Kentucky Wildcat as this is the first painting we hung in the restaurant, and a t-shirt that uh had the Labouf's logo, which was a picture of the restaurant sky, and just like if you took uh a really cheap digital camera and took a picture of it, they're like, There's our logo, and uh the tagline of piping hot Negronies. So uh yeah, so that is uh that's uh how that all fits in. But yeah, those those two together. I mean, Alex Alex and Larry uh was a great team. Alex and Kyle was a great team, and like all you know, just getting enough of those crazy people that just do not care about how other people feel about is it's not that they didn't care how other people felt, it's how they didn't care how other people felt about them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so yeah, again, real like true comedy is is you you cannot take yourself seriously and not like like you know, you have to be willing to to totally humiliate yourself there, and that's I think key. A lot of people don't get that. I didn't get that. I was always bad at stand up because I was like, I don't like that you're all laughing at the wrong part of this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it was so funny when you acted like a dipshit. Like, oh damn it, this isn't what I wanted. This is what I wanted to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, and I think my my biggest part I didn't find you know, going through therapy and and talking through some of my problems. Uh, the biggest thing is the uh with my ADHD, there is something that hits your brain, and it is described as not its own separate thing, but a portion of ADHD called uh re uh rejection sensitivity. Oh, yeah, rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Uh I can never remember how to pronounce it, but uh essentially made my camera much worse.
SPEAKER_04All right, anyway, sorry.
SPEAKER_01Uh but yeah, essentially it makes me feel that whatever any facial expression uh is I feel someone hates me or they're they're angry at me or they're rejecting me. So uh every time that I've done a five-minute set of stand-up, it has been axe actual hell and torture. And uh like even I get off the stage and they're like, oh my god, you killed. Uh it's like, no, I didn't. No, they they they only laughed one time. And it's like because I did I don't hear all of it, and it just it just in my brain, I'm like, that was the worst thing ever, and I should never do that again. And I can't.
SPEAKER_04I'm just I'm watching a whole group of people decide that they will never sleep with me. That's all I'm doing, yeah. Just watching the whole audience go, not you, and uh, that's it, and that's all that is in my head.
SPEAKER_05Really putting yourself out there, and you're getting people to make really, really absolute decisions about that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01I mean, even even having uh like a a long person that I admired for a long time because of his comedy on the radio, uh, was in the audience one time and he came up to me afterwards and he was like, Man, you've got really good timing, and yeah, that was a really, really good, really strong set. And he had interviewed like world famous comedians and stuff, and I just took it as him being uh you know, placating me and and you know, being like, Oh, you know, I've I've known you for a while, and you know, don't feel too bad, kind of. And that's the way my brain interpreted it, where other people were like, No, he he was laughing the whole time. I was like, No, no, you're just you're just saying that.
SPEAKER_04So thoroughly, thoroughly get it, man.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, everybody knows that the w if that were the case, what would have happened is he would have given you that like and then like just clapped you on the back like a few times, you know, just like all right, okay, let's uh who know.
SPEAKER_04You gotta cry sometimes. You gotta cry.
SPEAKER_05That's actually the worst. That's actually the worst thing to hear after a set. That's when you know someone is like truly could not find a good thing to say.
SPEAKER_04And and again, comedy itself is just so weirdly because like there were the number of times that I would see someone do a set, like I remember people who did like a set at like shit sandwich or something where it would just it would kill the room, like like it like people couldn't like breathe. It was so funny, and you'd see them do like the same joke at like other monkeys, you know, whatever, and it just nothing, yeah, just nothing at all. And it's like you just don't know where it's gonna land, you know.
SPEAKER_05And that honestly is, I think, the killer of like so many comedy careers, and good, like it should be. No, you you do have to like you have to figure out how to make each room laugh, and you have to accept that you're just not gonna get some of them. You're just not with enough numbers. Eventually you will bomb bomb hard, and the later, the longer it takes to get to that point, the harder it's gonna be to understand what the fuck is happening. Yeah, right. Most people I think they do really well because they're like, I'm doing stand-up. Everybody come watch me do stand-up. Then their friends go and they watch them do stand-up, they get some boost from that, and then they cheer. Ah, okay, good. Then they go do their second set, and they don't have that support. Maybe they play out to a different city and they're just they it just you suck shit and you and I'm saying this as me. I'm saying this is what happened to me is that second set, you go out and you're just like, Whoa, I'm fucking not funny at all, I guess. Like, because with the the only difference is that the people here are not the people in my town who know me.
SPEAKER_04Or just not prepped for the thing. I mean, yeah, whereas again, I watch Matt Gernsting just say, So I have a van, and the whole room just died, like just like lose it on so I have a van, like just that, you know, or like Big Tim could just like walk up on stage and be like, Well, I'm gonna be out back, like, and just the second he says it, you're like like the whole room, and it's like, yeah, there's a bit of context. There's a like like there's a time of context.
SPEAKER_05I think it's becoming a kind of like cryptid for this podcast because we mentioned him a bunch, and I don't, I think he's hard to find now. Uh, but like he uh it's big Tim's look, especially at like the time uh that he was uh a a big bigger guy, especially. Um, I don't know if he still wears the overalls, but I mean it was just the overalls and the giant red hair. We're talking, yeah, like a just a curly fro. He looked like if the doll from child's play grew all the way up and then some.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um but but the thing about Tim Murphy is that Tim Murphy knew eventually that he could go up on stage and just not talk for like 30 whole seconds of dead air. Yeah, and that that would be enough to crack him. Like that's gonna crack the audience because they're just like, what in the fuck is this gonna be like? What's gonna happen right now? And then he starts talking and he's got that kind of higher pitched voice. He's like, in a in a soft, surprisingly soft voice, he's just like, hi everybody, you know, and it's just like that would that could be enough. Like you just have to like use it.
SPEAKER_04I still my favorite set of his was this one where he just had a bunch of stuff to sell. He just got and that that was fairly common, but I it was just one where like his whole set was he was like, I don't really have any jokes or anything, I just buy a lot of stuff out back if you want. I have a mace, like a medieval mace.
SPEAKER_05If you got a couple extra bucks, make sure you make your way to the back, and uh, you know, we'll put them up for you.
SPEAKER_04I mean, again, just dead. Just it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01I actually there there was one night where he was like, yeah, like he went up last, and just to close it out, uh and there I think uh so Ross McCoy, the host of Tots with Ross, uh the Orlando Talk Show with Ross McCoy, um was a longstanding host of uh The Shit Sandwich, which was created by Matt Gerstein, uh, at the encouragement of Larry Fulford. Uh once again, everything is connected. And um, so whoever was supposed to close out the show uh did got hung up or whatever, and Ross asked Tim if he wanted to go up, and he's like, Yeah, sure, baby, no problem. And uh Tim had sat there and watched every single comedian go up, like probably like 12 different comedians went up that night, and he went up the sh went up there and did all of their jokes better than they could. And oh my god, and strung them all together into one big closer, and it was just a magnificent uh feat of artistic intuition.
SPEAKER_05Which normally would be like comedy suicide, yeah, wise, like people would not take that, but everyone would hate you if that you but you couldn't hit with him.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, plus he was it was so endearing, like the get hit like people used to try to either get Ross McCoy to laugh because he's got that really loud bark thing, or to get Tim to laugh because Tim had a very vocal laugh and from the back of the room, and plus making Tim laugh is is is a treat. Oh, yeah. So you know, putting all that together, it was like, okay, here he's on, you know, at that point it was like, oh, Tim is has earned the place of oh, he's honoring me by doing my joke on stage this way.
SPEAKER_05So but there are two Tim laughs. There are two Tim laughs. You get one when you do a joke really good and you actually get them. They they're sonically the same, there's no difference between the footprint and these laughs, but it's when they happen. The other one will be after your joke gets absolute crickets, yes, and that's when you get the evil, the dark tem laugh, which is just from the back of the room that that like tackle, like when it's just like I mean, because no one talks about this when you do comedy and you're in the back of the room, when someone whiffs it that hard, like if they've it's especially if it's like people have been doing well and like they've even been doing well, and then it's just one joke that you maybe they talk to you about and they're like, I don't know about this one. You're like, Yeah, I don't know. And then they try it and it whiffs, and you it's just it is funny.
SPEAKER_03That is funny it is funny.
SPEAKER_05It's it's like how jazz listeners will hear like the weird note in the jazz song, and they're like, you know, like it's like they go up instead of down. It's like that, it's it's just like there should be laugh here, and there's no laugh, and that surprised me, and my surprise exists in the form of a laugh. Like it's just yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm I'm there.
SPEAKER_01So if you want to laugh, uh did you know that if uh if it doesn't come from the Parma region in Italy, it's not Parmesan, it's just shredded cheese.
SPEAKER_04It's just okay. Is that one of those things?
SPEAKER_01No, well, it they're trying to make it a thing, like right now. Right now, uh there is a battle. Uh it's basically Europe versus America. Uh Europe what all the cheese manufacturers in Europe want the Americans to stop labeling it by certain names, like uh Camembert and uh Feta and Rogue Fruit. Like Rogue Fruit. Yeah. All of the the name cheeses that have a distinct flavor, a distinct scent, and all that stuff. Uh the Europeans are like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. You can't Call that powder that you're putting out. You can't call that parmesan cheese because it it isn't. And because it was fine, it like they're for a while, they're like, it's fine, just keep it over there. And now American corporations are pushing outward. If they can push out a little bit and take a little bit of territory away, then that that'll prevent the uh Europeans from marketing here. So they just keep pushing out. And now like Parmesan, uh the region of Parmesan is losing a lot of money because the Americans are selling cheap thing that tastes kind of sort of like it. And it's like you know, if you get to 90% of the goal for a lot of people, it's good enough.
SPEAKER_05Uh so basically, if you live in America, you're sort of like the how the people in Middle Earth never saw like the light of the two trees, like you've never known actual cheese. No, is that what I'm understanding?
SPEAKER_04Okay, we only know yeah, the names of cheeses. We don't know. We're we're we're it it's it's allegory of the cave. We're just we're just in the game. We just we have like the the brands like like put on the wall in front of us, and we're like, oh yes, yeah, cheese.
SPEAKER_05Because, like, I mean, I like our I like fet what we call feta. The idea that there's an even more feta e feta or something, yeah. That I'm getting a shadow of feta.
SPEAKER_01Oh, you don't know feta until you've ridden a camel through the desert and you're sitting on a blanket in the middle of the hot desert sun and eating it with olives and feta cheese. Oh my god, that's a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_05Can I just go to a store?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I really just kind of wanted to eat it by my couch, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_05I really like where the Europeans are coming from on this because it's like, yes, this is like an ancient practice with a lot of like heritage and a lot of culture behind it, and I super, super get that. But they have to understand that, like, hey, it's 2026, man. I can't I can't ride on an Andalusian stallion through the Swiss Alps, and that's how I'll understand how good Swiss cheese really is, you know. Yeah, like I'm just gonna get the one with the holes that's kind of uh earthy, you know.
SPEAKER_04Like I remember I remember having like realizing because you know, grew up having like Parmesan that was just like the craft shake it out kind of Parmesan on stuff. And I remember the first time I had like, oh, here's some actual imported Parmesan. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize it was supposed to taste like something, like it never even occurred to me that it was supposed to actually have a flavor to it, and I was like, Oh, what the hell was I having?
SPEAKER_05And it's like just a powder your mom yelled at you for putting too much on your spaghetti, like yeah, just like hey, come on, that's like four dollars a uh thing.
SPEAKER_04Come on, it's just a substance, it's all it was was just like it's just a substance to sort of thicken up your your pasta and so on. That's how we do it. But again, when you think about like American cheese, for example, the concept of American cheese is literally just the factory waste product of other cheeses that they were making that they then pressed together with oil, and they were like, there, that can we'll call that a cheese.
SPEAKER_05And I love that is there anything more American?
SPEAKER_04No, exactly. No, America, American culinary like like it contributions are all technological, they're all things that, like, hey, we figured out how to make this faster.
SPEAKER_05We figured out how to turn this waste product byproduct that we would normally normally Europeans would throw it away and or feed it to pigs, yeah, because it'll make the bacon more awesome. We're like, I wonder if we can press this and turn it into some kind of sliced abomination.
SPEAKER_04Frankfurters were a thing, but American hot dogs were straight up just like, what if we just put garbage in the cake?
SPEAKER_01Like, what if we just taste the hot dogs are the cigarettes of food, like and then and then they wrote uh a best-selling book about it, and people were like uh Updike wrote uh the jungle and oh yeah to talk about it, and and his the entire point of that was hey, the people are basically just glorified slaves, they're glorified Steves at this point. Uh that's we're we're calling slaves Steve's now. So uh the glorified Steves are getting paid nickels for a day's work, and this is awful. And everyone came away going, Oh my god, they put rat dirds in the box.
SPEAKER_04What's in my food?
SPEAKER_01Oh my god, I like I know.
SPEAKER_04I like if you read the job, the only thing you come away with is like, ah, that sounds like gross food, and it's like, well, what about the guy being like just beaten and kicked out of every place? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But look at how gross this meat is. My god, they just leave it there. It was amazing. No, I I know I'm uh exactly there, but yeah, you look at like the if you look at the cookbooks, for example, like American cookbooks pre-Julia Child, America cookbooks are all focused on like these like jello, like the jello mold thing. We got super into the jello mold thing, we got super into um uh the microwave, but like anytime like a new tech would come out that was like, Hey, the oven can cook faster now or whatever. You're there would be all these books that were like, that's what American food is, it's based on whatever tech you have in your kitchen.
SPEAKER_05There's a very choice uh book that's like uh it's like a book of microwave uh recipes, for sure. But it's like it's in your head, in your head, you're like, Oh, microwave's pretty new. No, like this is like from the 70s or 80s, and it shows it has that design sensibility, and you're like, Wow, we gave up quick, quick, yeah.
SPEAKER_04If you ever want to read one of the best, uh look up Stan Lee did like a Marvel cookbook at one time, and it's the laziest freaking thing. It's like it's that's awesome, though. Spider-Man's mac and cheese, and it's like take a box of mac and cheese and make it and call it Spider-Man's Mac and cheese. That's straight up like that. I mean that's worth it.
SPEAKER_05Well, honestly, though, that's like worth having just for that alone. Oh, yeah. Take the mac and cheese down in the cupboard. It's like it's like a recipe book for children. Peanut butter and jelly.
SPEAKER_04Put peanut butter and jelly on bread.
SPEAKER_05For children who can't go to the store and get ingredients, you just have to use what's in your house.
SPEAKER_04I guarantee you it was just what was in Stan Lee's house. It was just Stan Lee like looking around his kitchen going, well, what do I got? I got some bread.
SPEAKER_05Take your shoe polish and uh American spaghettios.
SPEAKER_02You open a can of spaghettios and you cook them. What are you gonna do?
SPEAKER_04Mr.
SPEAKER_05Fantastics keeping regular metamusle here, like that's Nick Fury's uh half drunk's glass of scotch, I forgot about.
SPEAKER_02I get a man. You get a six-pack and you get some whiskey, you get some vodka, you mix it all in there.
SPEAKER_04I'll be honest, this does sound like a like a book that should be written. I actually now I just kind of I kind of want to I want to market it as like a Tom Waits cookbook and just see how long I can get away with that.
SPEAKER_05Just be like like Tom Waits' cookbook and be like you don't even have to write a book anymore, you can just ask a robot to do it for you, and apparently Amazon thinks that's chill. So I think you could sell fucking.
SPEAKER_04I think that's yeah, that's perfectly fine. I think that yeah, every time you have one of those thoughts, like not one of the ones that's actually a good thing that some of you devote time to, but that you're like, you know, on a one-off concept, like that'd be a great coffee table book or whatever. Yeah, you should just speak that follow through. Amazon should just have an AI like that's its own, then you don't have to like do it somewhere else. You could just go on there and be like, hey, uh put out a book on this, and they're like, All right, just do it.
SPEAKER_05Sounds like honestly, why didn't we think of that? But yeah, hey, here it is. 1599. Here you go. Six hardcover. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Uh uh, so fun fact, cheese has been uh noted as early as the Neolithic age, so about 8,000 years ago. Uh they're pretty sure that Neanderthals were lactose intolerant, so no cheese way, way back then. Uh the early stories or the myth, the myth of creation for cheese is that some uh some Arab guy uh milked his goats and wanted to transport it across the desert, so he cut out the stomach of a goat, cleaned it out, and used that as a bag to store the milk. But uh there is an enzyme in the stomach called renin. Uh but there yeah, there's an enzyme called renin that uh basically separates the curds in the whey. Uh when he got to where he was going, he opened up the stomach and went, Oh, what is this? Oh, that's pretty good. I'm gonna sell this and tell him it's uh something I meant to do.
SPEAKER_04I wonder if he ate it first or if he dared someone else to eat it. Like, I wanna, you know, you open that, you look at this thing, then you're like, oh my god.
SPEAKER_05I I'm happy we're doing this because this is always my question about like the basic fundamental foods that we just take for granted and eat every day. Is like, yeah, man, hey, that is like the most brutal ass Game of Thrones way to discover cheese. Right. You couldn't write that. Yeah, so I needed a bat, I needed something to put this in. Babe, cut out one of the goats' stomachs, like fucking like sling that in there. By the way, there's leftover enzymes, I guess. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I have to stop myself from going too far over the edge because there are times where I'll sit there and I'll I'll mull over. Like who was the first person to cut open a cow and start gnawing on its meat? Who yeah, like if you look at the woods and and you see all this stuff, you're like, who discovered wheat was you know, you could eat wheat, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, think about the the when you look at like the the process that you have to go through to make wheat edible, and you're like, who the hell figured that out? Who why would you bother? Like, you why weren't there other things to eat that you were like, I'm not gonna, I'm not just not gonna take this time.
SPEAKER_05It's kind of why I think libertarians are or is it or libertarianism is a bullshit philosophy because it's like you understand that like the only reason that you can even use the word libertarianism is because of like a sort of uh like trial and error like filter throughout time of just like all of this began with like some guy eating a berry and dying, yeah, and then we just knew not to eat that berry, or that we put a pin in it and wrap back around to it and we'd make like alcohol out of it later. But like, okay, we're gonna move forward without that guy. That guy taught us something, and now we're gonna mushrooms constant process of like, oh, that guy died.
SPEAKER_04That's one of the don't eat mushrooms. Like just a constant process of that of just like, okay, that's one of the don't eat mushrooms. All right, on we go.
SPEAKER_05Here's one you can eat. Here's one. Oh, oh, okay. All right, who's doing this one?
SPEAKER_04Who wants to find out this one? Is this a sea god mushroom? Or is this a just like liven up your pasta mushroom? Like, like it's one of three. It's kill your own.
SPEAKER_05Isn't there something about how like maybe human evolution uh towards Neanderthal and like uh prehistoric what we call man was because like apes took like mushrooms or psychedelics of some kind?
SPEAKER_04So I've I've heard that theory. I've always liked the theory that it was really just like the that glucose, uh, you know, is how you think. Like glucose is the is what you're using for your brain to go. Okay, and that it was actually the discovery of like like big fruit, like a pear, something like that. Like that it was really something like the the fruit of the tree that we weren't supposed to eat from, but straight up like eating from a fruit.
SPEAKER_05Oh, that is actually very interesting.
SPEAKER_04So religion is just science to actually think through shit. Yeah, religion is just dang.
SPEAKER_01Religion is just science in storybook form, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, right. Well, or right, or it's them just talking about the thing that happened, and then everybody later going, You mean like mystically? And it's like, no, I mean that tree over there. I'm talking about that tree.
SPEAKER_05It's a that tree full of knowledge juice.
SPEAKER_04If you eat it, you'll think better, I'm telling you. Like it's just it's that tree over there.
SPEAKER_05I know it didn't happen immediately, but in my head it does, and it's very clever. It's like Planet of the Apes, the new one.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm just right there, just like, oh, I get it now. I love the idea. Indubitably, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01It's just like I have learned recently that in a classroom it does happen that quickly. Like you say something scientific, and people are like, like this, and you're like, What? What? I'm like, yeah, okay, that's a good metaphor for it, but in reality, this is not magic. This is it's just the thing that's happens, it's just the thing that's happening. Yeah, no, I know. Uh, another current event is there's an ongoing battle. Uh, some low, uh not low, um independent cheesemakers are battling the US government to have the right to sell unpasteurized cheese. Uh, the argument is that if you have unpasteurized cheese, people can get sick and then it becomes a large-scale pandemic issue, like I don't know, maybe COVID. Uh but they're saying that people should have the right to eat whatever they want to eat. Uh but again, where does the the political uh political lines lie of um your personal safety versus the safety of the entire world whenever whatever you eat makes you turn into a zombie or something? I don't know.
SPEAKER_04I knew so so years and years ago, uh um uh young Ian tried to to be a farmer uh and uh moved out to Colorado uh to to uh attempt farming, and uh uh there were a lot of people in the raw milk uh uh like movement at that time. There's big stuff in the raw milk movement. But the thing was was that you could drink raw milk if you wanted to. If you were in that and you wanted raw milk, you could get raw milk. That wasn't really a problem. The reason that there's like a movement is because there are the the companies that are like, we'd rather not spend the money pasteurizing our shit, like like straight up, just like like like if we could if we could sell this. The one that scared me was I remember there was a proposal to take pasteurized off the label, so that no longer would milk say whether or not it was pasteurized because it's the set, and I'm like, uh no, I definitely want to be able to choose.
SPEAKER_05Like that's why that's wild because that's like, well, that's not that much to label it. It's not that like I understand if you want to get rid of the process, no, and you no no no and you can make that so that it's like okay, maybe some people get sick, maybe some of them won't, but like, hey, here's some raw milk because of this movement. Okay, sure, you want to save some money. It's the part where you don't fucking tell me, no, bitch. Tell me, yeah, tell me tell me what's in the you have you have to do that. I'm not giving up on that one.
SPEAKER_04To not tell us again. Going back to the jungle, like they only have to tell us because of the jungle, like they only have to tell us because of Updike's the jungle, or um we need to guy up so you can do the jungle. We're not saying Sean Updike, we're saying Upton Sinclair. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01I okay, I might have screwed that up. Yeah, Upton Sinclair.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no, it's fine. You it threw me off for a while there. I was trying to remember what it was supposed to actually be, but yes. Um, but yeah, it's the same thing. Uh uh, it's it's just like they god, they would love to not tell us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. And and um yeah, removing the label then allows people to start sliding and normalizing. And so like the first one is take get rid of the warning signs, get rid of the differential between one product and the other, and once you do that, like I I see it in the electrical field right now, uh, all the time. Uh, one of the lessons I try to teach the students is at some point a major company uh will put in the effort to create uh a product and they'll put in the research, and then they'll hire uh technical writers to write a very well-versed uh manual for it. And then whenever that patent expires, uh then anybody that has looked at it can find a cheap way to manufacture it, and now all the labeling's gone, and you can't tell what whether you're buying the the original one that has the documentation, or if you're just buying the cheap knockoff. The cheap knockoff is affordable and you can throw it in your machine and it's good to get started, but then as soon as it breaks down, you have no way to fix it, which is you know, which you know that's that's where we come in. Like having the ability to know what it's supposed to do makes uh maintenance and fixing it and getting it back online very important. But like TV, like T oh, we went to Best Buy to buy uh Jackie a camera because the Jack White show that she's at is a no phones uh show, so we bought her a digital camera so that she could just take snapshots and and whatever. And we walked in, we were created by a 50-inch TV at $160. Yeah, and it's like okay, they don't have labels telling me how many ads I am going to get to before I can change the channel. Yeah, they don't have you know, and it's disposable because it's $163. If something goes wrong instead of trying to fix it, I can just throw it away and buy and score that out, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So I just got plastic for the garbage patch, my friend.
SPEAKER_04Um, uh this last like Black Friday, I uh I got uh like a 78-inch or 75-inch, like you know, Q led, like like and it was it was like $200, like it was like $190 or whatever. And it's like, yeah, we're really good at getting luxury goods down to like like just just to be cheaply like churned out. We can just churn out stuff that we don't need at all. Like, just like here you go. How about a giant, you know? I have no idea what this does for my TV watching. It's the you know, it's the same cartoon like on the on the TV.
SPEAKER_05Like, I'm wondering why it doesn't get better on a big $200 is because on the remote there's a button that says uh Netflix or Disney Plus, right? Yes, exactly. There's two that you use, and there's two that you've never heard of in your fucking life, right? Yeah, no, and when you have it on the bed and you roll over, that's the button you always fucking press to get to so you wake up to some kind of sign up that you've you're halfway through.
SPEAKER_04So so I just posted about this recently, but I used to have I had a Samsung TV and it had the Samsung TV channel. Like when you turned it on, there are these Samsung TV channels that are just like they're like movie channels or whatever, and and I would just wind up randomly on one of them, and one of them was was there was a CBS show called Scorpion, uh, and it ran for like four years, and it was the weirdest thing of like these nerds solving like they were supposed to be like like weird high-tech uh terrorist attack things that they were stopping, but they always seemed like totally unrelated actions that they were doing. And I just I was watching this one where like turn it on, I don't know what the hell's happening, but everybody's in like hazmat suits and they're holding these weird crystal fans and they're trying to point a laser at something so that they can plug in a flash drive. I don't know why the lasers need to plug it, but they do it and they plug in the last drive and the flash drive, and then they yell out, We did it, the Federal Reserve is safe.
SPEAKER_05That is like that is like a parody thing you would see on like Rick and Morty or something when they when they flip the channel halfway through.
SPEAKER_04That is Robert Patrick was in is in the show, so it does exist. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_05Love your cut love his contribution to the X-Files. Sad that he's on Scorpions. Jeez.
SPEAKER_04I think it's the same character. I think it's this character from the X-Files was sent over to work with these nerds.
SPEAKER_05And uh you know, sometimes I didn't know this. Sometimes actors who have certain roles decide that their character is the same character from this completely unrelated property. Like apparently, Alan Tudick's like butler character from one of the Transformers movies is like from his his. Is a character that he played in like a Catherine Heigel romance. Oh my god. Completely unrelated. And he's just like, these are the same guy. I'm deciding no one cares about this character. I'm doing it in my head. I'm just gonna be the same guy. Everybody loves Alan Tudick. I'll be fine. And he was.
SPEAKER_04Richard Belcher did that, but he just managed to get everybody to consider it the same character. He was just like, Look, I'm only playing the one character. If you cast me in something, this is the name you have to use, and it's what I'm playing. Here's the point.
SPEAKER_01Richard Belcher he uh transfers from Baltimore to New York, and then he goes into sex crimes, eh?
SPEAKER_04And now he's in sex crime, now he's over in this kind of crime. Whatever crime you're doing, it's the same guy. You gotta call him the same guy.
SPEAKER_05Listen, I've been a cop for 176 years.
SPEAKER_01And and uh you you hit the uh the secret connection button. Uh Richard Belzer sued Hulk Hogan and Mr. T over an incident going into World Uh uh WrestleMania 1 because uh he Hulk Hogan put him in a chokehold and he passed out and fell down and smashed his head on the desk and cut it open.
SPEAKER_05Oh so yeah, you know, it's okay to break K Fape sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh okay, so go so we're on wrestling, so we're back on cheese.
SPEAKER_01Back on cheese, yes. Um so cheese has been around like every every uh except for the Americans, uh, because I believe uh the Native Americans have some sort of lactose intolerance, but uh most cultures have some sort of cheese.
SPEAKER_04Uh and it is have you ever had Chinese cheese? I can't ever think of like a Chinese cheese. Um like I I've never had one. I didn't look one up for this.
SPEAKER_01I probably should I think I think the yeah, the Chinese there is a not to stereotype an entire nation of billions of people, but yeah, I think they're they are the strain of people that had that kept the lactose intolerance from the from the uh Neanderthals, and as the the road bridge across to America, that side of whatever, but uh what makes the Indians have paneer, uh the Russians have their cheese, uh Africans uh have their cheese. There's a bunch of stuff in South America. Um, but um uh there is an entire section of uh the Odyssey dedicated to the Cyclops and his cheese. Yes, yeah, you know Homer, or not Homer, who the who's the main hero of Odysseus. Odysseus.
SPEAKER_05That is the most perfect silence ever recorded in a podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh yeah, there's there's a whole chapter dedicated to that. Uh are you are are you either one of you familiar with Pliny the Elder, the the historian, not the beer? Yeah. Um he is uh he is one of the teachers, is that correct?
unknownHuh?
SPEAKER_05But he's Socrates.
SPEAKER_04Pliny the Elder uh was a historian.
SPEAKER_01Uh like like he wrote a lot of history, but he was also on the uh was he in the Roman Senate or uh uh no I think he might have been, but he mostly did the the recording of history and he wrote all he wrote in a lot of detail basically in the the concept that every detail is important, and he wrote uh a history book that spanned like a hundred books or so, something like that, and each each one had multiple chapters and stuff. Beer, beer uh has less than uh a paragraph, and cheese has two full chapters in in this history book. Um farming and all that stuff, farming and medicine is is the biggest part of it because you know that was what is important is to keep our people alive. But uh cheese was very valuable because it was high in protein and it was easy to you know, you couldn't transport milk because it would spoil by the time it got there. So cheese was a way to get that high protein food stuff to the troops that were uh you know committing atrocities as a defensive mechanism to protect the heart of Rome and expanding the empire in a defensive manner because you know all all all Roman wars are defensive wars, just like America.
SPEAKER_04Well, again, all like all all empires ever are just like I except for Alexander. Alexander was straight up just trying to get laid. Alexander is just going across and just putting his name on everything so that he could walk into everywhere and be like, Yeah, I'm that Alexander. Like that's that that's the whole reason he's going.
SPEAKER_01And he wanted new he wanted new uh styles of of holes to to fit into. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like all right, you know, I've done this. This is another one that's just a straight up like I'm just doing this to to for everybody. I'm doing I'm just gonna everyone cross the boy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I just love killing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I just love killing. I love killing and I love getting laid, and that's it, and that's all I want is the killing and getting. I'm a simple man.
SPEAKER_05I just want to kill every single person on the world except for the people I'm I'm having sex with.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the story of cheese involved in politics uh is is one of two chapters. One is uh we need to feed troops cheaply, and this is the way to get high protein meals to the front line so that they can wage war. Uh, we see it in all the Roman wars. We see it comes back in uh late uh leading up to World War One, and then the both world wars are um huge with cheese because it's easy to transport.
SPEAKER_04Okay, here I get to throw in my one little cheese. This was it. This was the cheese fact that I came prepared uh to deliver right here. I gotta read one of my favorite uh uh blue cheese. There's a blue cheese called uh Roaring 40s, and it's from uh Australia, and it was actually created when during World War II they would have uh you know uh blackout raids, you know, they'd have the they'd have to do the the blackout, dah dah dah. But they had to like store a bunch of their food in caves, uh and they had stored all of these all this cheese in caves to try and basically keep it out of somewhere that could be attacked, I guess. I don't know. But either way, when they went to get it, it had developed this mold, just like the the the roquefort blue and so on up in France. It had developed this mold that was a tasty mold, and that's another one of those moments where I'm like, Who eats that first? Who sees the moldy cheese and is like, I bet that's good.
SPEAKER_05Well, answer your question with a question, Ian. How many Australians have you met? Oh, there you go. Okay, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_01I'm fucking hungry, mate. I don't give a shit.
SPEAKER_05No, don't be a baby, mate. Eat the cheese, a little bit of mold in here. To be fair, a Floridian would have would have eaten it. Like, you know, we're we're sister countries, Florida.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, we're right, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We have very similar sensibilities when it comes to taking care of ourselves, and and no matter how small the group is, uh at least one out of ten people is a Mikey, and he'll eat it because he'll eat it. Yeah, yeah. And and the society is built on continuously producing and replacing Mikeys, whether they live or die. You know, once once uh once we got him, you know, he tastes it, he lives. Mikey is the basically the canary of of the humankind. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05What was that by the way? Life cereal?
SPEAKER_04That's life cereal. The the always poisonous life cereal. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, the whole point was that it wasn't it's like, hey Mikey, you eat anything. It's like it's fine, it's just like a great thing. It's like life cereal. I don't think it's eat anything, it's just not very exciting for children, but they acted like it was like radioactive, like he's strong, he won't die, probably.
SPEAKER_04Have either of you ever read uh Kitchen Confidential by uh uh Bourdain, uh Anthony Bourdain's like first memoir there.
SPEAKER_01No, I I know I know Jackie has definitely read it. She was yeah huge Bourdain fan girl.
SPEAKER_04It's a good boy, it's really worth doing, like you know, it's it's the good, like anyway. There's it the very beginning of it is he's out with his his family in France and they're on a boat, and the the captain that you know they're being like on this tour, and the tour boat captain like reaches into the water and pulls out an oyster and cracks it open, is like, look, fresh oyster, like any you want it. And most of his family is just like, Oh, you like what are you even trying to hand us out of the sea? And Bourdain at that moment, like he's like 11 or something, but he's like, I decided in that moment that I would try everything, and like that that if somebody's gonna try and feed me something, I'm gonna eat it. And like, and he eats the oyster there, and that like starts his whole life. But that I always thought was the most appropriate because oysters to me are the clearest eaten on a dare the first time. Like, there's no way that somebody looked at that and was like, that looks great. That they had to have turned to their friend and be like, like 20 bucks eat this.
SPEAKER_05First of all, they look like rocks, they are built to look like rocks so that you don't see the gooey thing inside. At some point, an oyster got daring and I guess exposed itself to a human. When you see that, you're also not like it looks like an underwater slot, like right, yeah. Jesus, there's a thing in there, like horrified.
SPEAKER_01Like it, you know, and and why would we decide to eat that and not a jellyfish? Because the jellyfish looks like the or did we try the jellyfish and that just did not work out?
SPEAKER_04Did somebody be like, I'm gonna see what that's all about candy before we met jellyfish?
SPEAKER_05I bet you somebody would have tried to just eat a jellyfish too. I'm sure they look like a they look like a a juju bee, yeah. Like somebody took a shot at a manower.
SPEAKER_04Can you imagine seeing like this purple blue manower and just being like, I bet that thing's real good, then that's the end of that guy, and we're all like, okay, all right, not that thing right there.
SPEAKER_01But I mean, and and the sad fact is it probably took a few times, like like Mikey took took a big bite of a manower and died, but died, and then that's or screamed in pain, and like yeah, it's like and then like maybe it was just him.
SPEAKER_04Well, yeah, no, no, yeah, you know there was somebody who was like, Well, he was allergic, he was daring but weak. What always gets me is why do we eat the things that take so much work again? We talked about like the wheat. We talked about I had to, I had to uh um like clear this field of thistle so that we could plant strawberries. And strawberries are the most like delicate, you have to make like a cone out of the earth that you're putting them in and spread their roots out and then like close it. And I'm like, how do you do this in the like wild? Like, what are you doing to like get by? But the thistle, which is edible, which if you know how to cook it, like is is an edible thing.
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, why don't we just eat that? Why aren't we just eating the thistle? That grows all over the place. We don't have to do shit. We just come out here and grab it and eat it.
SPEAKER_05Well, it's because we found strawberries, and we're like that beats the pants off of the thistle.
SPEAKER_04That's it. We got taste. That was our problem. Was we developed taste where we were like, oh, things should taste good. And it's like, are you fucking stop? Things should just be easy and you should eat them.
SPEAKER_05That really might have been the downfall. It's like honestly, it's like in Zelda when you just put a bunch of grass in a thing, it just makes like steamed herbs, you know. And it's like that really is like kind of most of what you need. That's it, it's all you need to do. Maybe some cheese, but like, you know, the steamed herbs is gonna get you 90% of the way.
SPEAKER_04There was a guy, uh uh Lee Chung Yoon, uh, who claimed to have lived to 250, and it's a weird whole thing about that. But his whole uh, like he released a book uh that was like his, you know, my diet and his schedule and so on. And it was literally just you you eat a bunch of herbs in the morning, like there was no food. It was like you just eat a bunch of herbs in the morning and then you walk for 10 to 12 hours a day.
SPEAKER_05Sure, no problem, man.
SPEAKER_04That was it. Just walk around like you just would this village to that village for 250 years.
SPEAKER_05I love it when the I love it when the turn comes on something like that, and it's just like, yeah, dude, just walk for 10 to 12 hours a day. Uh that's the day. That's just the day. So that's it. That's it. You don't work for years, but it'll all be walking.
SPEAKER_04You'll never produce a thing, yeah, but you'll live for 250 years. Like that's that's just it.
SPEAKER_01But I I've seen Terry Fox, the Terry Fox story, and and Forrest Gump. I I'm good. Uh I'll I'll go to work.
SPEAKER_05He was the Chinese Forrest Gump. He's just like one day we're walking walking, yeah.
SPEAKER_04He didn't drop across the country. He just he just very, very slowly got across that's why the 250 years there. That's so funny. God, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, hey, uh quantity over quality, I guess.
SPEAKER_04Like was he dumped by a jenny? Do you think? Like, do you think that someone in Chung Yun's life, like you know?
SPEAKER_01Oh uh the uh one of the biggest stories uh uh in in basically cheese stream cheese being the the center focus of politics goes back to the Dutch and um it has to do with they they ended up murdering a bunch of tax collectors uh because they're essentially they I think it was like the oh 1492 uh when Columbus was busy uh the ocean blue. Uh the Dutch were were hungry and uh it was uh they were paying just as much in tax as they were for like basically uh uh uh a hundred percent tax. Like if it's a dollar to buy a hunk of cheese, you're paying two dollars for it, and the money's going to these rich folk that don't do anything. Sounds familiar. But uh they they started getting irritable, and they had the chant of give us bread, give us cheese, uh and they made up banners uh with bread and cheese on it, and then they stormed the castle and murdered a bunch of tax collectors and uh they kind of fixed things after that. Like, oh okay, okay. Taxing keep go ahead. Oh, yeah, taxing uh daily needs like food and water and shelter might not be a good idea because it ends up in two very pissed off uh natives that attack you.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I I just wanted to to uh say I think uh there's a famous Rembrandt that's about that incident where they where they killed all the the I I can't remember if it is the Night Watch or if it's another one, but like the famous Rembrandt of them like stringing some guy up that they're either about to set fire to or or stab or whatever, and there's like a mob around him, and it's one of those paintings that's really famous because like look at his use of light, like look at the way that he like shows like the the way that their faces are, and it's just like yeah, yeah, they're murdering that guy.
SPEAKER_05Like, this is just a way society is broken down. Look at how well he's captured that in the dark here in the bit and like probably from a description, which is nuts, like 300 years later or whatever. Like, yeah, so anyway, it looked like this, and the guy was here, and there was a guy stringing up another guy. Okay, cool, got it. I think I can paint that in beautifully realistic lighting. I think I could probably whip something up.
unknownYeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_05Like, I'd love to see Rembrandt's like sketches, you know, just like his roughs. Yeah, it's like how good are those?
SPEAKER_06It's just the hangman.
SPEAKER_05I got it. Like most detailed, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I like like Da Vinci was very, very detailed on his sketches and stuff, so that when he like I I just see Rembrandt like just real quick jotting it down and on a knacking type thing, and then doing all the work. Da Vinci took every step of the way was uh just a labor-intensive thing that he was doing because and he had four ideas on the way there, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I wouldn't be able to do that because I would never get finished with a sketch. So I for me, I would have to put down little like literally uh anytime I try to do like storyboarding or or something like that, it's it's here's this little uh stick figure, and it that's one of my biggest failings uh in my brain is I think people can see the world the way that I see it. And um it took me, I think I was on the better part of 45 before I realized, oh, I have been mistaken this whole time. And I all the times that people told me that I was smarter than them, all the times that other people were like, hey, you're the smartest guy in the room, you need to slow down. Uh totally not a brag. Um it's a fucking nightmare. But I didn't I just didn't realize that I thought again, thought they were placating me and patting me on the back and saying, Oh, yeah, yeah, you got this. They were actually saying, Hey, we don't understand what the fuck you're saying. Don't understand what you're saying. Yeah. Uh, could you slow down?
SPEAKER_05Pause. I'm gonna go say bye to my mom. Oh, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh, but yeah, I am uh it is it is coming to fruition. I just recently took a job. Uh I am teaching at a school and I'm going through all that.
SPEAKER_04And uh like a what like a a a children's school?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. It's a trade school. I'm teaching electricians how to be electricians and uh uh technicians how to be technicians, and uh going through that, and I'll go through this thing, and I'm like, I see it perfectly in my like as I'm describing it. I see it. Like I'll I have uh a unique ability where I can put like this. I put on Danny Brown uh the other day, and I'm listening to it, and he's uh a wonderful, he wonderful rapper, great use of rhymes, good good lyric uh twists and turns. He's got good rhythm, good flow, but he's also an incredible, incredible uh storyteller. And if you and so when people don't listen to the lyrics, I I lose my mind because I don't I'm like, are you not listening? Are you not seeing this? And they're like, oh no, it's a good song. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. It's a fantastic story. Do you not see the movie that's happening? And you're like, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So as I drive to work, I'm watching movies uh endless in in like in in a millisecond, I can watch an entire movie and and all this, so I see it, and I don't under and I it's I have trouble coming to terms with people who are not with me on that journey, so I have to really slow down, and it's like uh the the few parts of math that I do get, and I like like I get math up to a like up to a point, like you know, uh and and when I would sub, like I would occasionally like like teach a math class, like I could teach like a you know an algebra, you know, or whatever, but I have it in that way where it's like, well, I I understand what it's doing, and I have no idea how to tell you what it's I like, like I don't I I don't if if you don't get why this does this, I don't know how to explain it. And I always feel bad about that because I've seen the teachers who are good at that, like the teachers who are able to break through that and go, okay, you're seeing it this way, but here's what's actually happening, and this is how you got to get it, and blah blah blah. And people will get it, and it's like, oh, dah da da. I am just one I'm like that. I'm just like, I I I don't know how else to give this to you.
SPEAKER_01I don't like like this makes so much sense in my head, and I don't know what else would make sense, and all that yeah, and uh like I had one class that they were at the beginning of their journey, and then I have one class that's at the end of their journey, and uh the the group that was at the end didn't have an instructor that that made those connections, and and they're like, here, just memorize these equations, memorize this, and you know, write this down. Here you go. And the class at the beginning, I basically like I have a deep need in my brain to be understood, yeah. Uh and so I can't move forward with the lesson until I know that most uh a majority of the people understood it, and like I have them explain it back to me, and then they're like, Oh, now we see it. And I'm like, Oh, great, cool. Uh whereas at the end, I'm like, hey, uh, explain this to me, and I'm I'm losing my mind because it's like I can't, yeah, I don't have enough time to rewind. to the beginning to tell you to walk you through it to get you here and you know quite honestly that's part of what this this podcast has has uh the reason why this came to fruition is is like if you want me to answer your question is cheese political I have to go back to way way back to the beginning and walk you through it and show you how how we got here in order to show you where we're going and um and teaching has has uh kind of solidified that into my brain of uh because before it was like I I'm dealing with five or six people and you know I usually surround myself with very smart people just sure just because I not again not a brag or anything like that it's just who I gravitate towards and people that I'm I if I'm comfortable in a conversation it's because people are understanding me. Able to understand yeah exactly and um yeah uh like if I if if I'm having the conversation and you're on board with it then I can kind of I I kind of feel safe with that person. So it's like okay I I I can have this conversation. So being limited to the number of people I'm exposed to it's like okay all these people see what I'm seeing and then I go out in the real world it's like oh shit no that they're not like no that's going shopping is a nightmare because you're surrounded by all these strange people that have different levels of of brain waves and it's like why are you not paying why are you stopped in the middle of the aisle with your cart turned sideways do you not account for other people existing in the world and it's like quite honestly the answer is no they don't because that's yeah and it's not through any fault of their own like if they did it consciously that's where and and then that's where I get really angry is because I have a deep empathy and it's like okay you're being an asshole but it's not your fault and it's all you know like I start so now you have Jill doing it.
SPEAKER_05You're just spinning your your anger and you're like I don't know what they're going through I want to go chew on a jellyfish. I've literally I think I've reached that that point in my life where I will see that and I go I guess I'm not getting eggs right now.
SPEAKER_04I'm just like I don't know why this person has elected to just sprawl uh to the point where I cannot get across I will either find a way around or I guess maybe that'll be tomorrow I'll just I'm literally that like I like I feel like people think it's like a passive thing and it's like no it's there's just it's picking your battles self-preservation whenever I whenever I'm like I can't get through this fucking like what are these people doing my first thought is I'm doing this to everyone else everywhere I go aren't I like that the first thing is I'm just like oh I'm in everyone's way I'm absolutely everyone else is trying to get around me. This is the problem yeah I I I have that a lot on the road because I don't think I'm not like the god's gift of driving or anything and especially not on like a uh on like the highway and so I'll like get cut off and get kind of angry and then I'll be like you know I probably did that like half a mile like a mile back you know I probably have done that to somebody to the point where it ruined their day I was accidentally like matching speed on a two-lane road with uh with a car and then when we finally broke and like there's just this other car next to me and I just see her like flipping me the bird constantly as like she goes past and I'm like oh I guess I was blocking her I didn't mean to I was driving down the road at the speed at five miles over the speed the sheriff said I could go like in my brain I I'm not paying attention I'm not accounting for that I'm not able I'm at barring people from passing if I know I like I'll slow down your speed up I'll get out of the way I love I do not want to be in a car's way ever if you're impatient go please yeah oh yeah oh for sure I I'm one of the I I get the full on like I will get to the place of like I'd be justified in murder like like like I didn't to murder this person I could stand in front of a judge and be like no no we all did it like we understand what happened here and and there's the part of me that sort of thinks that like I think that the world could work that and I'm like dude if you were allowed to kill people in traffic I would have just gone black years ago I'd just be driving and then I'd be gone because I definitely did something to somebody that I didn't even I wouldn't know that I did it I'd just be like doo-doo doo go to look boom out you go because just no idea what you are doing to anyone else on the road yeah and uh yeah it's that's one of the biggest like cannot own a gun things is like gun in the car I'd be like that guy right there you know it you know he deserved it your honor in my defense come on did you see it did you he wouldn't let me I was trying to get over he had a perfect chance let me in just did not let like come on it's like you don't go up to just your honor I mean we know what's happening here I mean yeah I just want a karma button on my steering wheel like they piss me off karma button and karma enacts and deals with it but I wish that like the polite honk and the the I'm angry at you honk were on different buttons and it wasn't like up to me to pick them but there wasn't because I always do the wrong one go that there was a little like go honk like hey the light has turned hey yeah yeah you know because like anything longer than a microsecond and it you're like the person's like well excuse me yeah I want like an explosive like angry like al Pacino horn like for the for like the you know for the angry horn that's like good Lord like a like hello yeah great ass anyway that would be that it would that should be a dedicated honk yeah Tesla take note our next story falls into the category of hungry people being taxed and overpriced uh and we transfer ourselves over to Nottingham England and quite honestly it I think Chris Nolan can make a movie of this okay I think based on uh everything I'm hearing about uh the Odyssey and what he's put together and either of you from a few historical inaccuracies have either of you seen it I have not uh uh I saw the boy Kanye because of the races uh okay yeah all the white people it's just crazy how many white people in this effort movie i saw uh i saw jason and the argonauts and i saw uh oh brother wear all thou i think i think i've got it feel fun no no no it's it i will say uh i i'm not like the biggest nolan guy i see all of nolan's movies i i like some i don't you know like i'm i'm i'm here and there on him this i think was was maybe his best like like like might be his best he makes a number of changes to the text which you would like there's a lot of stuff you just gotta cut out and you gotta choose what you're gonna have there and i i get that and i would i was a little sad because we lost some of like the funniest moments like all of the humor is gone from it um but but he does a really excellent job uh just with what the story that he wants to tell like the the story that he's telling excellently laid out really really well done um and so yeah it is that I actually really like him better like because before this my favorite of his non-Batman movies was uh Dunkirk uh you know and I I think that he works really well better when you give him another story to present yeah and and and where what he's doing is is using his talent to convey the emotion and the and the the sensation of this event and this you know of being there and he's he's really really good at getting that across yeah because it does seem like when it's like kind of a uh another kind of thing like it's not an already established story it yeah it is like uh it the if you I think if you look at it it's like all of his movies are sort of like oh wouldn't that be neat yeah like it which and they are that all of those are inception is very neat uh memento is incredible uh my what's my favorite movie of his might be tenant okay obviously not for like character work and stuff but just for like raw like fucking what am I watching yeah like level level stuff which is I and it's sad because tenant was like one of those movies that really got just like they kind of I feel didn't know what to do with it uh theatrically yeah because it hit right when the pandemic right in covet and yeah um and it's just one of those movies that's like man this would be incredible in IMAX yeah like and does great at that right I think and yeah and that's that's the thing is that I really feel like uh every one of his movies I enjoy watching in the theater I love watching in the theater and I learned the lesson after memento of like don't watch it a second time you go home and you watch it a second time you see all the crap you'll just go uh this script actually is is really not a great script like like there's just a lot of like holes in this shit and so it's like that's okay just just let that don't worry about that just watch the movie enjoy the movie when it's that and it's and it's fantastic and I I just I feel like like he's he's great at that but anyway but we were you were you were on the Nottingham there and I'm I'm just I'm with you I think that that that I could I could see that I always think it's funny that Nottingham's a real place.
SPEAKER_05Like yeah don't you think it's a fictional like oh yeah Nottingham and the hundred acre wood yeah like it's it's I guess you write what you know but it's so old and I think yeah we forget how old Europe is I think that's really what's happening.
SPEAKER_01There but like there like was a sheriff of Nottingham like that's like a guy possibly fictional character that's like you know yeah but that guy that guy existed is what you're saying so so Lord of the Rings style prologue uh we go back to Jesus and him walking around with 12 guys one of those 12 guys is Matthew uh and he ends up being one of the four evangelists the four evangelists were the four writers the gospel of Matt Mark Luke and John and Matthews is the best one and um uh oddly enough started as a text collector and okay yeah wait yeah Jesus came and tapped him on the shoulder and said hey you don't want to do that yeah come with me don't don't be that guy don't don't you don't want to be a part of that organization come with me um and so the uh they had uh throughout Europe they had uh uh the festival of Saint Michael also known as Michael Miss uh no relation to Mick Miss um uh which is the high holy day of this podcast um and um so there was a celebration every year uh to celebrate the Jesus and and the book of Matthew and and all that stuff and like most festivals uh they needed vendors to come in and support it so you know vans warp tour was amazing and then they just had to bring in vendors to pay for it so uh you get vendors uh this was sort of the van's warp tour of the time of the time actually it was it totally was and uh today is brought to you by cheese cheese it's new eat it consequently it is still going on a thousand years later it is still going on was this the kind of thing where they would do the the the plays uh the the uh what are they called the the like the divinities or something like that where you do these plays that are like the the uh uh of scenes from the Bible of scenes of saints they're usually of like scenes of saints i believe so it won't this is where Deus Ex Machina would come from they would actually have the the god would come down on the like on a wire and would like bless everything and that would be what would happen.
SPEAKER_05We pointed ourselves into a plot hole here yeah bring in the God right that's the whole Bible is like plot holes that you're just like well how does he get out of this and you're like well it's a God I guess I don't there's a lot of stuff in the Bible that just ends and when you go and you read it and like God God exists between the pages and that's I'm gonna give that bone to you if you're a religious person but like you can tell that the Bible is like 19 books that someone put in a collection because it's just like and then Moses was circumcised.
SPEAKER_04Anyway here's Rebecca like and we know no no no straight up like yeah if you if you just read down in a pod you know just you'll just have a story of and then that guy uh killed a bunch of people so then we're going to like this guy and you're like was the lesson to kill a bunch like what was what was I supposed to take from that no that's the last bit of the scroll we found what happened it's just what happened to the guy and again but again the lesson in the Bible most of the time like most of the time is not like a moral it's not like hey you should do this because it's the right thing or the wrong thing it's always anyway God said this and this is like he said to do this now and so that's what they did and that's like you know and they all did that's what God wanted and that's you know it and you're just like okay all right so make sure you do that too yeah uh eventually uh it transformed from uh oh this also predates the Gregorian uh calendar so it was in August and then they eventually moved it to October when then the new calendars came out and they're like hey wait a second this day is in the wrong month and ah well we'll just call it October and um yeah that's right uh so with with uh used to be colder when this happened what's going on so with the feast of St.
SPEAKER_01Michael they needed food there so vendors would bring you know uh animals uh and a lot of goose because the main course of the the meal was a goose uh so they transformed it and started calling it the goose fair and there's records of one time imagine imagine you're a goose vendor and uh you don't want to kill all your goose because they'd be rotten by the time you put them on a wagon and shipped them all over to Nottingham.
SPEAKER_04So you walk down the road with two 2000 goose on a leash they'll follow you I we raised geese at the at the farm I was at and and you don't have to do anything they just eventually are like where are you going?
SPEAKER_01I'm just gonna go with you turn around and be like what are you hoping to get out of this and they like quack in your face like keep going where are you going keep going hey guys this big bird is going somewhere we should follow there let's see what's up with that I guess that's and because the the the fair was doing well uh King Edward the first actually wrote them a piece of paper saying this this uh Nottingham Goose Festival is the official festival that happens at this time so they kind of got rid of all their competition and and whatnot uh some other guy doing like the ferret festival being like uh and to illustrate the importance of the goose festival four times in history it has been canceled once during the bubonic plague once during World War I uh or during the the they canceled it for world war one because there was a lot of shit happening in world war two they didn't have any nighttime festivities but they still went on through the day and they shortened it to like three days instead of seven uh and then they canceled it for two years during COVID so any covet deniers I would present this as COVID deniers I would present this as it's it's a big deal it was a big deal no that you know that you know that when they canceled it for the bubonic plague there were guys who are like what it's like a cold like what's the fucking problem like like you know I'm going fuck you I'm gonna do it we're gonna have our own cultices don't work washing your hands is a myth that gets rid of God total yeah total myth rats are rats actually cure the bubonic play you want to like roll around a bunch of rats uh so it uh slowly transformed to a religious uh festivities to basically uh uh a uh vendor supported sales thing and you know they still had they had they they came up with other reasons for people to show up but the big deal was selling goose and goats and and all that stuff uh and this is at a time where uh people that were making food uh found it more profitable to ship it out of town and sell it elsewhere uh than to feed their own people that's when that started I guess yeah and then we crisscross it with uh a uh lowering of production basically some bad weather and uh bad harvests and stuff like that so instead of saying okay feed locals first and then we sell what's left they're like we're gonna just sell we're gonna sell what we are normally selling and maximize our profits and screw the locals capitalism baby yeah and man it's crazy to think of like that's that's right there that that guy was like Sam Walton's like great great great grandfather you know like that's what's weird is that we have this actual incident and we have whatever happens at this incident and everybody took from that that's a good way of doing things let's let's get that idea it's called fuck the good people of Stratford upon Avon we're shipping out to not a ham baby the only other old time British town I know uh and to paint a picture the cheeses are in giant wheels like you know like five feet wheel five foot wheels uh like in the elder scrolls yeah yes and some syscus had to push up a mountain yeah so there are uh high insight basically some of the cheese producers and other producers were withholding stuff in order to inflate the price because supply and demand if if more people want it you can charge more for it so they're secretly holding back on all this and they're like oh we'll just take it to the fair and sell it and what started off everything was uh some out of towner uh vendors came in because they knew the festival's going on and they knew that there was going to be a bunch of food there they came in there and before the festival started they went to the cheese monger and said hey let's cut a deal and they cut a deal they loaded up their truck and uh just as the festival's starting these guys from the next county over are starting to wheel the cheese out and uh what is described as a group of rude lads uh surrounded the the uh cheese truck and said oi mate where you go with the cheese and uh they had a standoff and the uh cheesemongers tried to tried to scoot forward and the the locals were like nah you're not going anywhere bro so then they started basically they pulled him out of the truck and started beating the crap out of it and a riot ensued and uh everyone started spreading the word that there was plenty of cheese and they were just inflating the price artificially so the town went nuts and went and grabbed all the cheese that they could and the sheriff of Nottingham uh was asked to arrest certain people and he was like I can't without a search warrant so he went to the magistrate and the magistrate said no I'm I'm not getting involved no no no no no no you imagine imagine a cop like being like hey go search him I don't care if you got a warrant like that's not how that works so uh so the cheese uh cheese dealers basically rounded up a posse and said uh all right we're going if if the the law can't handle this and the magistrate's not gonna handle this we're gonna handle this so they rounded up a couple people and stood outside the magistrate's house and uh basically started attacking the magistrate and the magistrate all right all right all right we'll we'll arrest this group and they took them and they put it into a private residency because the jail was not ready you couldn't handle that many people and then the rioters basically attacked the house and got rid of all the guards and helped everyone escape and so it was basically everyone you know all the locals that were hungry fighting all the people that were trying to make money.
SPEAKER_04Um wouldn't you love it if that I mean again at what age were you when you learned that like in America we Spend tax money paying for land for people not to grow corn on it. Like that we like like we give money to people who have land and we'll say we'll give you money if you don't grow corn on this land. And like like that we don't go insane when we hear that. That we don't like hear that and just like lose our mind and go, wait, what are we doing? What the hell are we doing? Couldn't we just charge what we charge for the corn? Couldn't we just have like pay if we need to subsidize the corn producers? We could do that, but do we have to like prevent land from producing food in order to like what the hell are we doing?
SPEAKER_05And it's it's also just like, and then you and then so you hear that, and you're like, okay, so there's less food than there could be. And then you go and you work at a supermarket, and at the end of the day, they're like, Hey, so these cakes, these like decorated cakes that were decorated by a person, yeah, you have to throw them into the locked garbage. Yeah, you can't give them out to anyone standing outside and more we're paying people to make less food, but there's still more food than we can sell. Yeah, and I can't give it away because if I did, then people would just wait for us to throw the food away. Then and it's like, wow, we really fucked up. Yeah, yeah, we did. There is a definite step. That shouldn't be how that works.
SPEAKER_04Uh no, there is a definite step that happens somewhere that's just like, no, wait a minute, hold on. Hold on.
SPEAKER_05The third hitchhikers guide book, they they these people crash land on the earth, and they're like they're they're supposed to be like the descendants of modern humans, but they they're like losers from this other planet. They're basically like the third ship of just like the dregs of this society that went off elsewhere to form an empire. Uh and like at one point they decide to start using leaves as currency, keeping in mind that they haven't like figured out how to forage or like make their own food or anything like that. And so there's just like these idiots walking around with like jumpsuits full of leaves, and they're like, Yep, I'm doing pretty well for myself. And then at some point they're like, Well, now everybody has leaves, but we couldn't help but notice there's a bunch of trees all over the place, which means that all of the leaves are now useless, and like all these people are like going, no, but my life is over. Like, but don't worry, we have a plan. We're gonna burn the forest, and then your leaves are gonna be worth more. They still haven't figured out how to eat. Like, they still like, and I feel I feel like that's us. We had figured out how to eat, like, we hit some kind of survival peak at one point, and then we ate the mushroom or the fruit or whatever, and like it's just been overcomplicating it ever since.
SPEAKER_04Like right past it. We we again, yeah, there was a time of well, I mean, I like this is one of the points that I always try to make, but like if if you want to actually compare us to any other social animal, you know, like chimpanzees or so on and so forth. Nothing that's like a loser in this society doesn't get to eat, it doesn't get to fuck. Like, that's the that's what what gets like separated out in terms of like who's an elite and who's not an elite, and da-da-da-da. Like it has to do with whether or not you breed and how you breed, and blah blah blah. But everybody eats, everyone fucking eats. Like, like you know what I'm saying? Like, nobody's like, don't prevent that monkey from getting food until it does more, like you know, yeah, and it's like no, we got to somewhere where it was like, hey, we got all the food, we're great with the food, and we added this thing. I don't know what that was.
SPEAKER_01To finish off in the Nottingham story, is uh Nottingham was a kind of a base of operation for the military. So whenever it got out of the hands of the posse and the police and and everyone else, uh they called in the military. So the military rushes in and they ended up killing one guy. Uh they murdered a guy that was a vendor who was literally protecting his own cheese. Like he was the shop owner, he had cheese. He, by all accounts, a decent fella and wasn't trying to cheat anyone, but he was just standing there at a pile near near a pile of cheese saying, Hey, this is my cheese. And the military went, Oh, there's a rioter, boom, and killed him.
SPEAKER_04So uh I have a very Monty Python like vision of this of the guy who's like it's it's really hard to imagine it's not comical, right? And just like coding and being like, What?
SPEAKER_01And to finish off, uh the the coup de gra coup de graph uh is the post uh event propaganda that spread through the counties was that the shortage of cheese was due to the rioters. Oh, I forgot. Yeah, there was one point where there was uh uh the mayor came out and tried to calm everyone down, and he's like, Oi, everybody, calm down, please. And then a big wheel of cheese rolled him up rolled over him and knocked him down, and everyone's like laid-out cartoon style.
SPEAKER_04I I I I think you're wrong about about Nolan doing this. I think uh um uh uh Phil Lord and Chris Miller should do it. Uh the the yeah, the the Lego guys.
SPEAKER_01Oh uh so uh yeah, that is that is uh one of the big uh big stories. Um Jared has and the next one uh has to do with what uh is famous by every rapper that grew up in the 80s, uh has at least one lyric about it. I can't use any of them because of uh one of the words that is always incorporated in a lyric with government cheese. Uh but uh essentially the the government cheese program in the United States, which turned the most Republican uh president into what seemed to be a full-fledged communist. Uh and it all started way back in the Dust Bowl. Uh so in order to again in order to know where we're at uh with uh like this whole thing is coming back in 2026 and the push for real cheese and real butter and tallow and whatever, uh it all goes back to 1933 with the New Deal, the Dust Bowl, uh we're in a depression, everything's falling apart, and the concept of if a farmer can't survive farming, the farmer's going to leave the farm, and then we have less farms. And the idea of assisting the farmer to keep them on the farm so that when things go, you know, the weather's bad, right, but it's eventually going to be good again. We want them in place because A, they have a knowledge that has been passed down from generation to generation, they have a know-how. They've, you know, if if if you work the land for a year, you have no idea. If you work the year for five years, you have a little bit of an idea. If you work the land for 30 years, you have a pretty good idea of what's going on. So the concept is, hey, let's have you know, let's give them a little bit of money and support them through this. Uh and then uh uh basically they they start, you know, they started getting subsidies, and uh then it was like, oh, they're paying for milk. Cool. If I make more milk, the government's going to buy it. Let me buy more cows. Uh probably a bad idea because uh someone forgot to cap it at the back end. Uh and uh so yeah, it it be the the milk uh industry became extremely crowded because everyone it was uh not easy work, but it was easier work than other ways, especially since crops were uh they were having trouble growing crops because of the dust storm and all this other stuff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I was gonna say we're talking about the the knowledge, and it's like, yeah, they used a number of subsidies to buy tractors, which they then overplowed all of their fields, like like and like like we super overplanted was how we got the dust poles of like, oh, we lost all our topsoil, we lot like you know, like we lost all of the the grounding topsoil and created this you know massive you know problem.
SPEAKER_01Uh and because there was so much supply, uh that it over over cal you know more many more times than the actual demand was, right? Uh so in order to inflate prices, uh uh farmers were dumping milk into the streets, into the drains, and everywhere. They were just dumping milk to get rid of it because there was nowhere else to do it in order to inflate the price of the milk that they were trying to send to the market. Uh, so uh uh one of the I could just give it to my calf.
SPEAKER_04You could just not milk me. I mean, you're the cow just going like you can just not milk me, just let me feed my calf. Like, I don't know what the problem is.
SPEAKER_05So demoralizing for the cows, like throwing it down the drain.
SPEAKER_03The street.
SPEAKER_01Uh the new the new deal led to the creation of the commodity credit corporation, which is uh U.S. government created corporation that buys milk. Uh, so they just started buying milk and sending it to uh in-need and basically nonprofits. Sure. Uh, which, you know, not a bad idea. You know, here these people need milk. Give, you know, let's give them free milk and you deal with it, and you're not trying to make a profit off of it. So, you know, we're all good here. Um, and then uh it kind of stabilized and everything was going okay, but then again, it's like, hey, you're going to buy any I think it was like uh they set a floor for how much how low the price of milk could go, and anything below that the government would pay you to kind of cover it.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_01And if you couldn't sell milk at the market, they would the US government would buy it, and the U.S. government then send it, you know, they made enough cheese to send it to schools and milk to send to schools. And then uh World War II happened and everything changed. So, you know, most American history is tied into the Nazis. Yay! Um, so with the the Nazi uprising and the need for feeding troops uh all over Europe, uh 50 to 70 percent of all cheese manufactured or all milk products manufactured went to uh overseas. So and there was a huge, huge demand. So uh they started breeding more cows and milking, and you know, just like for for a farmer that is making milk, uh, you know, this is this is awesome because they could just it was limitless. How you know the uh if you got up at five in the morning and milked until midnight, uh you could pump out and make a fortune. Um and so at home the demand was was low, but in in worldwide uh demand it was way high, so the price went up and the government was buying. And then the world war and you know, world war two ended, and all of a sudden uh they didn't need to feed the soldiers anymore. So that 70% gap then became excess, and the price plummeted. Uh because you know everyone at home was told to ration. You don't don't drink milk, don't do you know, save the milk for the warriors, save it, you know, save it for the war effort. Um and all of the all of that just all all of a sudden just stopped.
SPEAKER_05Nobody nobody like uh gave them the okay. It's good, buy lots of cheese, please buy please buy it. Please buy it again.
SPEAKER_04Uh just well again put out some cookbooks that are like use the cheese.
SPEAKER_05Here's how to use the cheese. We're so good about the part where it's like cut how about the boys in blue, the the war effort, you know, and then it's like when they come back, it's like did you you forgot something? Well, yeah, you're all doing that.
SPEAKER_00Like, okay to cheese.
SPEAKER_04At the time, the only way they tell you to do it is just like, hey, wolf it down, goddamn it, for your country. Like, just eat it, whatever's there, just do it.
SPEAKER_05We have to re-equalize the economy. We're gonna need you to buy about a metric ton of fucking cheese each.
SPEAKER_04What should we do with it?
SPEAKER_05Fucking eat it, like shove it in your mouth, your kids and make cheese sculptures. We don't care, we just want to make sure we don't encounter a crisis.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh yeah. So then the Agriculture Act of 1949 uh came out and they said uh what is called parity pricing. So basically, hey, this is this is as low as as milk is gonna get, no matter how much milk is on the market, this is as low as they're gonna pay uh on a consumer level. Because, you know, again, if if a farmer does all that work and doesn't get paid, the farmer's not gonna farm and everyone's gonna ditch out. Um you know, and now you've kind of given a taste of this fortune, too. Yeah, yeah. Um so the Secretary of Agriculture was legally required to support dairy prices at a level of 75 to 90 percent of parity. So if the price dropped to if they set the price at a dollar and uh the price on the market dropped to ten cents, the government had to cover that uh difference. And um uh and ended up buying up all the milk. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So all the all of that purchasing kind of hit a hit a basically a level, and then whenever the not really uh the recession of the 1970s hit, the price went down, and everyone this is where it gets into if you have poorly written laws, uh so with the when we talked about the Dutch, we talked about they had ideas to solve a problem now, but they didn't look at there was no need to look at what is the the problem going to be in a hundred years. It just it is here's a problem we need to solve now. Here is a dam, and we're holding back the ocean.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01Here's a problem now. Uh, we gotta get this water out. Let's create windmills to pump out all the water. Here's a problem now. Oh, we have records to keep track of everyone and what their needs are so that we can give them their needs. Oops, that's gonna be used against us by the Nazis to murder all the Jews. Uh, here is capitalism because it solves a problem of we want to do this project, but one person can't afford to do this project.
SPEAKER_04So if we've enslaved Africa we want to make money.
SPEAKER_01Well, see, that's yeah, that's that's where it gets, you know, that's the long-term it it the wheel starts wobbling and and goes way off. Cal help me.
SPEAKER_05I've I've I leaped again and I've somehow managed to enslave Africa. How's he gonna get out of this one?
SPEAKER_01So everyone sees you know, smart people were looking at oh, we can make a fortune if we go buy a small farm, get a couple cows, and just pump out milk and sell it to the government. No big deal. The problem is the scale of things, of the number of people doing that. And uh, so people stopped buying milk uh because they couldn't afford it because everyone was in a recession and everyone was shutting down. So now the government has to buy all the milk that the consumers aren't buying, and they started stocking up really quickly. And part of it was uh we can't store milk, it goes bad. So they would put it into processed cheese, they would dry it out and make powdered milk, they would make butter, all these things that they could store, and then they found uh limestone and salt salt mines in Missouri, and it was like, hey, it keeps it cool and it keeps it fresh. Uh, if you're in a salt mine or limestone mine, you're not getting a bunch of bacteria that's growing, so everything's nice and stored, and we can keep this for a while. And then they kept with the government buying it, the the farmers started cranking out more and more milk, even though the demand was going down and down and down. Uh so we ended up with this huge, huge surplus. And uh they tried different programs. Like if you are if you were tortured in school by the the milk lunches, like I was, I was lactose intolerant, and it was like every meal you had to have a milk. It I by the end of the day I had cramps and and bloating and and pain, and and every day was misery because of milk until I discovered I don't want to drink that.
SPEAKER_04It does your body good. They were very, very clear about that. That was the science.
SPEAKER_01Uh then uh the 80s came around.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, you feel bad because you don't have enough cheese, eat more cheese.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh then the 80s came around, and Reagan was like, Hey, what is this cheese thing? Why are what is this bill that we're paying? And someone came along and said, Well, we have in Missouri, we have all this storage, and we have to rent that, or we're paying for that storage. He was like, Well, get rid of it. And several people offered the idea of skipper. Imagine someone, imagine walking into the president's office and proposing, let's take a billion pounds of cheese and dump it into the ocean. Like, what kind of asshole do you have to be to even think of that, yet alone verbalize it to the president who can make the decision?
SPEAKER_04What one of my favorite books is like a children's book on trash from like the early 1980s. And it's like, but it's like one of those supposed to be kind of like look at how good we are at at you know working with our technology and our crap that we churn out. And it was like, here's what you know, how they get rid of it. And one of the chapters is on cars and like what to do about old cars. And they're like, one senator suggested we take all the old cars out to the uh ocean and just like dump them in the middle of the ocean, but it was pointed out that that would interfere with naval technology, like you know, sonar. And it's like, is that the problem? Is that why we didn't dump all the cars in the ocean? It's because we were like, oh well, the navy though, like that was the only issue. Otherwise, we just there it goes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, yeah. So someone else with a clearer head said, Hey, we have hungry people, why don't we give the cheese to the hungry people? And that would get rid of a lot of it. So a lot of people in low-income housing, uh, my family included, uh, well, we weren't in low co low-income housing, we were just struggling to pay the mortgage. Uh but uh my mom went and got some government cheese and we ate it because it was there. She like I didn't realize at the time, but uh we were drinking powdered milk for a reason, uh, because it was free. Um, but yeah, all this stuff. Uh they went and they gave out all this food. And the problem was there was still a lot of it, and they couldn't get rid of it fast enough because more cheese was coming in because people were getting paid to produce it. So, several programs in uh the United States where the there were some dairy farmers that were paid to stop. It was like, hey, we'll pay you more to stop than we are paying you to buy your milk. So please just stop. And then they took some money uh that the dairy farmers paid in as part of a little program and uh started talking to ads, uh uh salespeople and stuff. So the got milk program or the all the got milk commercials uh was paid for by the government to get people to drink more milk and eat more cheese.
SPEAKER_04Um, do you think that they might eventually adopt a strategy for podcasts? That they might just be like, there are too many podcasts, like and then like everyone is in the podcast. Like, we'll pay you not to make a podcast. Just just don't like just go up to like every white guy between like 35 and like you know 50 and be like, hey, hey, hey, we'll give you some like 20,000 a year, just don't make a podcast.
SPEAKER_01All right, yeah, it's called universal uh basic income.
SPEAKER_04Is I will not make a podcast.
SPEAKER_05I think the funniest thing is like if you gave out UBI, there would be so many dudes who are like, Finally, I can start that podcast.
SPEAKER_06I can finally do the podcast.
SPEAKER_05So finally, people are gonna know what I think of the new Batman movie.
SPEAKER_01Uh and then uh At one point, the government had to find a way to basically hide all the cheese. So they went to places like McDonald's and for instance uh Pizza Hut. Uh there were commercials on commercials on commercials that were paid for by the U.S. government for Pizza Hut to say, hey, look at what we're doing now. We're rolling cheese into the crust. Look how gooey and chewy this is. This is amazing. You're gonna love it. Come on, fat boy, eat more. I would love it. Paid for by the U.S. government.
SPEAKER_05Uh stuffed crust pizza is a psyop, is what you're telling me.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's not a psyop. It was just a program to get rid of cheese because it was cheaper to pay Madison Avenue to advertise it. It was cheaper to pay Pizza Hut to produce it than it was to store it.
SPEAKER_04It just makes me upset because it's like none of nothing is mine. Cheese comes out of this too, like the concept of just like just tubes of fucking cheese. Just eat like more cheese. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they they were paying people in labs to come up with ways to get rid of cheese because there was so much goddamn cheese.
SPEAKER_02That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01It was everywhere, like hamburgers with extra, extra, extra, extra cheese on it. Like all of all that cheese. Like they told Pizza Hut, put more cheese on your pizza. Put Domino's, put more cheese on your pizza. Hey, we're gonna stuff cheese into hot dogs now. Hot dogs, yeah. Okay, hot dogs with cheese in the middle, little, little slices of lunch meat wrapped around cheese, snackables. Hey, it's a good idea.
SPEAKER_05Even like even uh lunchables seems like one of the most government ass like uh foods that no no no yeah, lunchables are that is like that is just an MRE for kids, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly right. They used to have snack snackables that was literally a stack of crackers and a uh square of spreadable cheese with a red stick. There they still have them now, but they're terrible uh because it's it's been privatized. But back then when government supported, it was a a lot of cheese, and it got rid of cheese. Like the whole concept was let's get rid of this cheese. But people have privatized the the storage of it now, so they want to make as much money off of it as possible instead of trying to get rid of it and save money, they keep building up this massive cheese.
SPEAKER_05Like they they have this thing that they're trying to get rid of, and now the them trying to get rid of it has become like its own micro industry, yeah. That requires like its own economic ecosystem now, right?
SPEAKER_04I want to study how to get rid of cheese faster, like like like you go to college, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Like that's the part when you when you're hiring researchers to get rid of your cheese. First of all, I mean we're talking about, I guess, an amount of cheese that we were we've been trying to get rid of for fucking 40 fucking years, but like uh the notion that also you you're you're now paying like another whole thing, a whole other office. How to like solve I want the problem is this cheaper?
SPEAKER_04You know what the the what am I saying at the county lineman song? Uh I am a lineman for the county. There were all these songs in the 70s that were about like hardware. There was like convoy and stuff like that. And I just I want the one for the guy who comes home from his hard day trying to figure out how to get more people to eat cheese, like like just the the working on ad campaigns and stuff. Like, what could what else could we put cheese in?
SPEAKER_05Like, and and you know, the upsetting is like I love cheese, and apparently that is manufactured. I am in the cheese matrix. No, no, yeah. That's the upsetting part. Is like it's I didn't develop that by myself. I don't have I'm like, oh wow, what's this delectable salty treat of of which there are so many varieties to choose from? And it's knowing that this was a government program, that upsets the fuck out of me.
SPEAKER_01What what what makes it even more upsetting is they did the same thing for pork. Like the McRib. Yeah, the McRib is is uh I don't want to say it's a science.
SPEAKER_05At the time I learned about the mcrib trick, I was woke. I might was aware, I was my eyes were open.
SPEAKER_01It's it's literally a uh it's the Dutch problem. They're they're trying to create a solution to a problem now. Uh and it's well, every in the in the 30s they were creating or they were creating a solution for a now problem, and then in 1949, they created a solution for a now problem, and Jimmy Carter created a solution for the now problem. And then Ronald Reagan tried in the 80s, and so it's just they're sol instead of going back and disassembling everything, they're just tacking on uh updates to a poorly written program that is just getting worse and worse as well.
SPEAKER_05They're too scared to delete lines of code that are necessary, they're just like adding like a patch that like sort of circumvents it. It like lets the input come through, but it's just like it like sort of offshoots it somewhere else.
SPEAKER_04Hey, in five years we're gonna stop buying this much cheese. Like, like just that's like just in five years, we're gonna stop subsidizing the floor of milk, do what you're gonna do. What like from then like you know, that's but you've created cheese barons now, is the problem. Well, but that's just it, is that there are people who are like, Well, now I make you know a fortune selling this to the government, so I want to keep that industry going in this like fashion, and you're just like, Yeah, it's a whole thing. I can see this happening with weed. I can see us getting to a point where so many people grow weed and there's so much weed grown, they're like, You gotta put it in the pizzas and put it in the food, and we have to just have weed on everything. Oh my god, every weed's gonna be so fucking high all the time. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, in 30 years, I believe we're gonna find out that all the edible uh the cook shows, the edibles, the everything is it's gonna be some sort of government program.
SPEAKER_04Government program to get us all.
SPEAKER_01In the 80s, we were hiding cheese, like Escobar was hiding dollar bills. Like that's that's how much it was like he was making so much money that he had to bury mounds and mounds of it, like he had to bury it underground because rats like in a warehouse, rats were eating the money, so he was like, Well, let's bury it.
SPEAKER_05And man, they ended up burning cheese or something.
SPEAKER_04And uh, if you ever read uh um this great book called The Other Hollywood about the the uh the creation of the porn industry and like how it like starts up, but the the the part about Deep Throat, and because Deep Throat was the mafia, like the mafia funded Deep Throat and put it out there, and of course, it kind of like weed where you you couldn't uh like like where they could take the money in cash, but they couldn't put it into banks and stuff like that when you know when we had that. So that was the problem is they like they were literally hand over fist just feeders, you know, pouring cash into them, and they had nothing to do with it. So they were buying office buildings and just filling these office buildings with cash because they were like there's nothing nothing they could do with it, and you're like, God damn, just rooms and rooms if you walked in, it was just cash.
SPEAKER_05There's gotta be some there's gotta be some place on the earth in the in the country where they forgot to get the money out of one of those office.
SPEAKER_04I I have thought about that literally since reading. I'm like, someone has not kept track of all the deep throat cash. There's gotta be deep throat cash. Nobody like knows where it is, but yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's like a modern that's like a modern uh treasure island. Like money, it's called Money Office, and I know where I found the map.
SPEAKER_04There was 15 million dollars in deep throat receipts and were hidden under the Constitution. I'm gonna get them.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, another cage vessel. If you eat a uh uh Wendy's baconator with double cheese, just know that you've been fully bought by the US government because that's all it is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I have a couple, but my doctor told me I couldn't have any more than that ever throughout the course of my life.
SPEAKER_04We have to have that's gotta be some reason that we have tomatoes too. I don't I I like I I know people who like tomatoes and so on and so forth, but I don't think everyone has ever been so like so into it, but we put them on everything, we put them on every sandwich, like like like every kind of sandwich gets a tomato, and it's like what I like, you don't we're not just walking around being handed tomatoes, like what's happening?
SPEAKER_05Not to give us another question, but yeah, who where did the PR come from for tomato for tomatoes?
SPEAKER_04Why'd we get us in New Zealand? It's beets, like that was the weirdest thing. Like in New Zealand, all their hamburgers and stuff have beets on them instead of tomatoes.
SPEAKER_05How was that? That sounds real tangy.
SPEAKER_04It was great, it was great, I loved it. I A, I don't like tomatoes, and B, they were it was it was marvelous, and I wanted that back here. I was like, please God, somebody pick that up and start doing that uh in the US. But like I I I assume that there's something with tomatoes that we figured out that we were like, oh, we can do a lot of that, we can do a lot of tomatoes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I don't know. I mean, yeah, now I'm gonna think every food is a fucking op. That's it.
SPEAKER_04Now that's what you've taught me is that I'm just gonna look at all in my fridge and be like, it's interesting because cheese itself started as this like uh it's a solution to a problem, right?
SPEAKER_05You gotta get milk from here to there. Oops, now it's not milk, it's this other thing, I guess, because of goat enzymes. And it's like, oh, this shit's awesome. And so what I'm understanding now is that cheese is like the plastic of food where we found this thing and we're like, well, this is in abundance, this is easy to make. We can make a shit ton of stuff with it. Uh and it's easy to transport all this jazz. Oh no, now we have too much cheese in a fucking salt cave somewhere. Yeah, and we we have it for 40 years, and we're like running out of ways to make cheese appealing to people to the point where they will buy it. It like we've made it cheaper, we've turned it into tubes, we've turned it into cubes, we've turned it into snackables. Yeah, uh it's it's like the cheese, it's too good. It's too good an idea. Yeah, exactly. It's like how like you look at plastic, it's like it's this. I I've seen like commercials where they talk about plastic from like the like the six.
SPEAKER_04Like the yeah, when it first developed plastic, that's it, but the plastic is like only like 60, 70 years old, and that like happened in the life.
SPEAKER_05And we made it a problem in that amount of time, instantly, instantly. We're like, oh, we ruined the planet. If we're not careful, yeah. We've made a continent of it out in the Pacific Ocean that seagulls can land on.
SPEAKER_04I did not read learn in this, and and now I'm just very curious. Is why, like, okay, you got the guy in the Mideast who first does this, and you developed first cheese, and there it is. Why did we keep getting different cheeses from like if you were from Holland and you met someone from Parma, were you like, Why is your cheese hard? Like, our cheese is super soft, and your cheese is really hard. Like, what are we doing?
SPEAKER_05Why like that's that cultural exchange, right? It's like, oh, okay, it does this when it's cold, yeah. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_04You know, but just everybody figured out different kinds of cheese. Nobody figured out the same cheese.
SPEAKER_01We all figured out there's not only the the enzyme to um uh the like the goat, the goat stomach had a certain enzyme, Renan. Right. Uh, but if you poured lemon juice in milk, it would cause some sort of enzymatic uh process that would so not only do you have different sources of milk, you've got goats and lambs and and cows and and whatnot. Uh in some places you have uh vegetables that they use the oils out of that is similar to in consistency to milk. Uh and then like in Middle East, they have camel's milk. And then not only that, but then you have the different versions of how to separate out the curds and whey, and then on top of that, storage, and then uh how are they salt, you know, are they salting the outside? Are they mixing the salt inside? Uh how are they storing it this way, and whenever they do remove it, how do they press it? So in and like in and of itself, there is a simplicity simplicity to cheese, however, in something so simplistic, you have the ability to create multiple branch timelines, essentially. And and you know, everyone if you don't have the internet and everyone says here's how here's the one recipe to make it the cheese, right? Um you just you know uh and you know it it previates writing, so you know, somebody learns how to do it here, they take the process and try to explain it to someone. Uh, I think either beforehand or maybe during uh at one point we might have touched on it where I don't I don't believe that people can't see what's in my brain because it's I know right they don't, but uh and uh I'm having to come to terms with that. So me explaining how to how to create cheese to someone that then runs off and they don't have any reference to to do even if they do write it down, it's not exacting.
SPEAKER_05So and yeah, I mean like writing something down was also like not necessarily just something you could do, yeah back in back in or far enough.
SPEAKER_04And regionally you're gonna run into different enzymes and yeasts and and things like that, and so you know that's that that's going to happen. I just always wondered like if you were someone who just lived in an area that only made like you know, like a really quality like eat them or a Swiss cheese or something like that, and then like you like came across cottage cheese, where you're just like, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_03Like, like, was there just a moment of like I don't what the hell has happened here?
SPEAKER_05Like, those really are like when you hear like the hyraxes did to the elephant, that's like one of those where you're like this is the I mean, I guess, I guess you could call it cheese. It's it's in the neighborhood.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, this is how we do it. What are you doing? What are you doing to your cheese?
SPEAKER_05It seems like you're doing it wrong. This is wet still.
SPEAKER_04This is like uh this is sort of a goop. I imagine that I like cottage cheese for the record of Normandy. Part of the the the thing the French brought over there was like, Oh, you guys are doing cheese wrong. All right, like that had to have been a thing because they told like again, that was the French like empire like thought was always like it was a cultural idea, it was like we go to wherever you are, and then we're like, Oh, you guys are doing that wrong, and it and a lot of it was food, like a lot of it was just like you guys do food wrong, and here's how you guys should do food better, and and so on. And I like I know that somewhere in the English conquest, there was a like, oh, you guys are doing cheese all wrong, you guys gotta do cheese.
SPEAKER_01Imagine uh a poor kid in World War II that is you know grown up on French cheese, one of the thousands of variants of French cheese, and they get this hunk of yellow, and it's like the hell is this this?
SPEAKER_04Think about the poor Americans get over to France, like you know, and then they're like, Oh, here, have some of our French cheese, and they're like, What the fuck have I been eating? Holy shit! Like, I have to go back to my old. I'm not doing that.
SPEAKER_05Uh yeah, I mean, like you know, I was fine. I would I would probably be fine with it until I had the European cheese, and then I and then I would like again, it's like tasting unicorn blood. Like, I can't go back.
SPEAKER_01One one quick story, and we'll get out of here. Uh, I was in uh Cannes, Cannes, however you pronounce it. Yeah, and wandering the streets, and my friends and I walked into like this back alley, and there's a door, and it's like, oh, here's a bar. We didn't realize it was a family bar, and they had closed for the day, and they were just having a family celebration, but they were they were very welcoming and invited us in, and I had some cheeses and wines that I could never replicate again because it was just so it was so unique and so family-oriented. It was a family recipe, they made their own cheese, they made their own wine, and it was just like the most glorious thing in the world. And was like, I I can never look at wine or cheese in the same way ever again because this is magic. It was indeed unicorn blood.
SPEAKER_04That's amazing. All right, get us out of here, but I do want to I do want to throw in a little thing, but get us out of here.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, real quick.
SPEAKER_04This is uh unrelated to to cheese, but you're just talking about this in France. I was in France, I was looking long story. I was looking for my dad's chateau. My dad had owned a chateau in France, and I was trying to find it. And I was in uh uh this little town outside Biotretz, and I see like a little like country kitchen uh sort of restaurant type thing, and I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna see if somebody in there can tell me where where I'm looking for. And I go in, I sit down, it's this little like like kitchen setup, like a little cafe, you know. And this woman comes in, is like, oh bonjour, and like and she doesn't speak any English, and and we're trying to like sort of struggle through. And about like two minutes into it, I realize this is not a cafe, this is this woman's house. I've just wandered into this woman's kitchen and sat down, and and she like straight up like poured me a cup of coffee and was just trying to talk to me, like, okay, guy who's just walked into my kitchen with.
SPEAKER_05I mean, she must have yeah, I know man, America is so fucking different.
SPEAKER_04I will never ever hear, ever hear that the French are rude again. Like, I'm just like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, this woman was like, So, what do you want?
SPEAKER_05G's food like I I do want to throw, I don't know the whole story. I do want to throw just a little thing, uh, because I thought it would come up and it didn't. There's uh it's uh an episode of the dollop is dedicated to this, and they do a way better job than I will of explaining it. But basically, at one point while Andrew Jackson was on the campaign trail, uh somebody somebody got the bright idea to because we used to like presidents used to be just people that you could like meet, walk up to, and hand a gift. Uh and so at some point, uh, this cheeseer, whatever you call a cheeseman, uh, was like, we're gonna make the biggest wheel of cheese we've ever made for president forthcoming president Jackson. And he was just sort of like, Well, thank you, okay, whatever. I don't think he could like eat cheese, he didn't care for cheese that much. But at some point the presidency turned over, and so that became the thing is to just give presidents cheese, and there was just a bunch of fucking smelly cheese in the White House before refrigeration, yeah. For like it was, I think it ended up being like 12 years because they they would try to get rid of it, they would try to get rid of the cheese in the same way that the government did later.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Jackson invited the public to come in and and cut cheese off from the the cheese. Like that was supposed to be this big, like, oh, I'm welcoming the public into the White House, but it was also the White House is full of cheese, goddammit.
SPEAKER_05But it just kept at long after, like two presidents after Jackson, they were still like just being sent cheese.
SPEAKER_04The sign up of getting rid of cheese goes back a long way. That's what we're learning here.
SPEAKER_01It goes back further than you know, and it even goes on uh before that. Uh, the the first big wheel of cheese, another cheesier uh one to give a big wheel of cheese to Thomas Jefferson. Oh my god. And uh, and the one that was given to Jackson was to say, Hey, I think you're a better president than Thomas Jefferson.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_05I knew there was a dig. I knew it was a dig of some kind against another guy.
SPEAKER_02I just couldn't.
SPEAKER_01It was a dig against Thomas Jefferson.
SPEAKER_05All right. All right.
SPEAKER_01With that, thank you to Kyle from Dear Sandy for our theme song. Uh, thanks for Michelle for filling in as the producer today. Uh, thank you, Ian, for taking this journey with us, and thank you, Christian, for encouraging my insanity. Uh, thanks again. Uh big thank you to the big boss man, Zach Bennett. Uh, we will be back next week to discuss the question that Jackie has brought up. Who was indigo's PR agent? That one is gonna be fun. I've already started digging in.
SPEAKER_02I love it. No, it was nothing.
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